On today's episode of The Contract Lens Podcast Matt Patel, COO and Co-founder of Malbek, chats with Julie Riese, a seasoned proposal and contracts professional. As someone who manages the day-to-day activities of proposals and the contract lifecycle for her entire company’s business units, Julie is well-versed in all things contracts – from authoring, evaluation, and workflow, to approvals, negotiations, and milestone management. Her practical, hands-on experience gives her a unique perspective into what works and what doesn’t. The conversation touches on the evolution of contract management tech from the clunky software of yesteryear to the elegance users can enjoy today. And Julie shares how your contract management solutions should be like Legos, not cement. So grab a glass of wine, and let's talk contracts!
Intro:
Welcome to the Contract Lens Podcast brought to you by Malbek. In this podcast, we have conversations with contract management, thought leaders and practitioners that everything contracts and it's ecosystem. In today's episode, we discuss why self-service capabilities are essential to effective contract management. The conversation is led by Matt Patel, COO, and co-founder at Malbek. And joining him is Julie Reese, a seasoned proposal and contracts professional. As someone who manages the day-to-day activities of proposals and the contract lifecycle for her entire company's business units. Julie is well versed in all things contracts. From authoring to approvals, negotiations and milestone management. So now it's time to relax, grab a glass of wine and let's talk contracts.
Matt:
Hello, Julie, how are you? Thank you for joining us on this podcast today.
Julie:
I'm doing great. Thank you for having me today.
Matt:
Absolutely. Our pleasure. So today we will talk about the evolution of technology and how we as humans have adopted and evolved with it. So if you think back 10, 15, 20 years ago, however back do you want to go. When mobile phones were new and DVD players were around, I remember it was absolutely fine and normal for me to have to go to the mobile phone store to set up my new device or have them configure it for me.
Matt:
Or when I buy a new home electronic product, I had to read the manual. Sit down, configure it, or call their hotline and get support from them. But if you think about that today, that you have to go to a store to set up your Apple or Google device, or have to read a manual to set up anything in your home, you would think it's crazy, right?
Matt:
Because we are so used to the new way of automatic and self-configuration very easy without having to ask for technical support. Just wanted to get your opinion on that before we move on to current technologies at home or at the workplace. How have you evolved with changing devices or software technology?
Julie:
Absolutely. Matt you're right. I don't like to have to rely on other parties to set up systems or devices. It's so important and imperative for us in business that we're able to be nimble and we're able to adjust our systems and adjust our processes or even the workflow. That I can do this myself quickly because we have often... Contract's waiting on those things and orders and so on.
Julie:
So having to rely on a third party or our own overtaxed IST teams, it's just not something we can do anymore. And now in this new workplace where we're working remotely, that's even more important to be able to configure, set up, or modify any system that we're using ourselves.
Matt:
And one of the things that I've seen happen is, as the home electronics or personal devices evolve much faster than business software or enterprise solutions in the office, we were okay with using the latest gadgets at home in our personal lives.
Matt:
But when you walk into the office and had to use an old clunky software system, you didn't question it, right. You were fine with it because that was the norm. Again, it was outdated technology, but you wouldn't complain to someone at work that, hey, this is not as easy as my Apple or Google device. So that was also the case for many years. Would you agree?
Julie:
It was definitely the case. I remember maybe over 10 years ago, we were working in a large company and we're still using a DOS-based software and that's not something that we use on a day-to-day. And I remember, probably, I guess back then younger at the time, it was something that was relatively new to me. So I had to be taught how to use technology that was really way dated. That was just no longer being developed or the user-end experience was terrible. It was clunky, it was difficult. So I remember just really struggling with that.
Julie:
And has time to go we're stuck using those large enterprise software that are very rigid, very difficult to work with and difficult to learn as well. I find that they're not as intuitive as they should be.
Julie:
And for me, when I have a team working on those software, it takes a lot of effort to train them and to make sure that the user's devices interface they're not really logic or common sense like the technology they used to use at home. So it's really nice when the technology in the workplace mirrors the technology that you're used to. Like the Googles and the Amazons and the Facebook websites where there's some conventions on how the system is laid out and you intuitively go to the right, to the left up or down to find functions and you can figure it out on your own without having to ask for support.
Matt:
Absolutely. And I think they've figured it out, right? The Apple, Google, Samsung, or any brand that you pick these days. They have figured it out what makes it easy for consumers, from a user experience standpoint.
Matt:
So for enterprise software solution vendors like us at Malbek, we don't have to reinvent the wheel, right. There's no need for me to sit down and figure out, okay, what's the best way for someone to see the latest activity in the system for them? I mean, these newer technologies have figured it out. So from our perspective, our goal is to leverage that, bring that type of user experience in the application.
Matt:
So I'll switch to something we both have in common, which is contracting, contract management. In your role, you deal with contracts all the time for your enterprise organization. We provide contract management solutions. And even I have been through a journey of 15 plus years with contracts, management systems, evolution, sorry, and how they used to be five, 10 years ago and how they are supposed to be now.
Matt:
If you were to go back to systems you used with contracting, now we're specifically talking about contract management. Can you tell me a bit about how you haven't seen evolution if you used a tool five years ago versus 10 years ago. And what do you expect now if you had technology?
Julie:
Well, I guess my experience is a little bit different. We didn't have technology in the past. So we were in the ShareDrive. Well started with papers, paper copies, then moved to a scan copy that's not readable. Filing that's very difficult to sift through when we have generic questions.
Julie:
And then tracking in Excel, which is very, very easy to make mistakes and to lose things, or delete lines, or data that's in it without tracking or any audit trail or any kind of that information.
Julie:
So we went from really not having a system to having a really good system, pretty quickly. And I think that'd give us a little bit of an open mind to really go with something that... As much as Excel and those files are terrible, we had a lot of freedom with them.
Julie:
So we were able to move the files, how we wanted them. We were able to create new columns of pivot tables in Excel and things like that. So we had that light and easy freedom, even though it was not a great system.
Julie:
So I think that was very important for us to continue to have that autonomy and that ability to create new tables, or add new tabs, or add a new fields, just like we would've done in Excel, but having an actual legit system that properly has a workflow and approval process. And that collects all the documents properly with proper OCR and so on and so on. So that would be my experience Matt, in this case. More coming from not a rigid system, but wanting to continue that autonomy and that flexibility.
Matt:
Definitely. And it's interesting you brought up Microsoft Excel and Word. Talk about two solutions that have been around for years and are not going away anywhere soon. If I was to use an analogy, I think of things in our life that have been around for years and are not going to go away.
Matt:
Let's say shopping carts, right? Look at shopping carts, they don't have to evolve. They do the job. They continue to support the use case, which is helping you shop in the store, right? Putting things in there. And no electronic gadget or new technology is going to replace that.
Matt:
So when you look at Microsoft Office, you can't get away from it no matter what solution you use. Whether you were in online browser-based application. When you want to edit a document at the end of the day, it's always good to work within Microsoft Word, and redlining, and all the things that Word does well.
Matt:
And when you have large set of data, Excel is the best at it, right? It scales well. So sometimes when we put out new technology we have to keep in mind that, don't replace what works. Add to it, integrate with it.
Matt:
At Malbek, we continuously look at productivity software that people are used to, and not try to disrupt that. Don't try to change what people are used to but give them something on top of it. And when it comes time to implement...
Matt:
I guess, let me ask you, if you had to put in new technology or use something that your company bought, do you have support from IT at your beck and call, meaning if you needed their help, they're always there? Or is it a internal costs or you have to wait for their time? Would you want to rely on IT, I guess, to help you with the new system that you implemented?
Julie:
Definitely not. Those things are overtaxed. I mean, they have to do the day-to-day support, with just hardware and software. When it comes to updating or connecting a software to another, or those integrations generally we'll involve them. Which are larger project that involve a lot of people.
Julie:
So we trying to be as self-sufficient as possible so we're not overtaxing those very busy people. And for us, it just makes our project move faster. But just go back to your first comment about Excel and Microsoft Word.
Julie:
For me, when I train new users or if I'm learning a new software, I think that it's very important to build on that foundation that everybody has, right. That Word and Excel foundation is going to give you user a little bit of comfort. And it's going to feel comfortable because they're used to it. They know where to find information. So they're not having to relearn something that's really deeply ingrained into their day-to-day.
Julie:
And then if all I have to do a contract, I have to use this software that's very different. And then if I want to create a new document and I just go on Word. So for that learning experience for the new user, you're not saturating them with learning so many new things. So you're really building out on that foundation and the user acceptance is so much better that way.
Matt:
Agreed. Imagine looking at a large table or a lot of rows, which I know you are very familiar with because your data shape is in thousands or tens of thousands of rows. Trying to look at that in a browser or on your phone is just nearly impossible, right? It has to be in Excel.
Matt:
It's like whenever I see somebody watching Netflix on their phone, I wonder why. Why not walk over to your TV and watch it on a bigger screen where it makes sense to watch a show or a movie. But that's just me.
Matt:
So I think there's a tool built for everything. And the best thing you can do is integrate with the productivity software that people are used to. And make it self-service. Because you're right. If you look at any company in IT department, you may have five people in there, 10 people, you'll never have hundreds of IT team members to support an organization that has thousands of employees, for example.
Matt:
So now that IT team is taxed with first of all, security of the data in the organization, right? Managing all the devices, and computers, and everything that have an issue. And from a software perspective, IT is responsible for the bigger application that needs the IT maintenance.
Matt:
Talk about Oracle, or SAP, or any large ERP or CRM systems. That's what they're focused on. So when it comes to business applications like contract management, you want contracting professionals to be independent, self-service, and be able to manage that tool without depending on the busy IT folks or the vendor for that matter, right?
Matt:
You don't want to have to call the vendor and pay them services every time you need a change. So as we evolve, and let me ask you a forward looking opinion in terms of where things are headed next in your mind. When you look at contracting tools, what do you think the next five years or 10 years will be focused on?
Matt:
Because there's lots of content out there about AI, and fast contracting, and self-service, and high-velocity tools. Tell me a little bit about your wish list for the next five years, let's say.
Julie:
Oh, Matt you know that's my favorite thing. My wish list, as you know... I guess I always share with you what I like to see. But I think for the next five years, what I really want to see is, have a fully integrated system across all the power grids.
Julie:
So right now, we moved in from let's say, archaic system with our contact management to a pretty nimble software that the solution that's working really well for us. Terms that are in contact, how do I communicate this better with other teams that, it integrates on day-to-day ordering system?
Julie:
How does it integrated with our service team and our sales team? And obviously that's something we will move forward with a CRM application. But that's really my wish list. It's to have that ability to really connect all the dots together and really have a fully integrated.
Julie:
And the contracts at the end of the day they're really the heart of... They feed client information, they feed pricing, they feed our customer lists, they feed our terms and condition, deliverables. And how do we communicate that a lot more smoothly across all of those departments without having to manually do it or send emails or manual reminders? Because that's really what's slowing it down right now.
Julie:
So going forward, having those fully integrating system that talks to each other, that are easy to connect will be a change. And my other wish list would be probably on the legal review aspect. That's always a little bit of a bottleneck for us.
Julie:
Just like our IS team, our legal team is very busy. They're taxed from different departments. So I want to make sure that this whole process of the legal review is as smooth and easy as possible for everybody. That will reduce our contract activation time and allow everybody to just go on with more Value Added tasks.
Matt:
And integration is a topic by itself. I think it is essential. It's actually table stakes, right? The contracting system cannot [live 00:17:30] on its own. It has to be connected to other applications in the company.
Matt:
And it is only going to grow as contracting systems keep integrating with other applications. I'd say a foundational principle of our solution from day one, the ability to connect with other systems. And it's something that we are always looking to monitor.
Matt:
What are the new popular tools in the market that customers will want to connect with? Julie, one additional question. So as you continue to expand the use of the CLM system in your other departments, what do you think is going to be critical success factor and essential part of it to make sure that rollout works well for all the team members?
Julie:
As I'm looking to expand the system here internally, I remember that somebody asked me, because I was collecting information to see how I would adjust the workflow, the metadata fields, and so on. And I remember some of the users were a little hesitant to say, go ahead with this because they weren't a 100% sure with what they had suggested to me. And I remember telling them that this system is not like pouring concrete, building a wall of concrete that you'll need the specialist to come and fix it.
Julie:
I like to refer to it as, almost as a box of Lego blocks where I have the box with some instruction and I get to build it the way I want. Then if there's something that doesn't quite work well for me, I can replace those pieces with something else and try it on until I get it right.
Julie:
Because oftentimes we wait for perfection to get moving ahead. But perfection sometimes is in the way of progress, right? If we really waiting to be perfect, we may not just move ahead. And it really adds on to that time. So having the ability to do some trial and errors myself, really allows me to move this project forward a lot faster and a lot more accurately, I would say with what we really need.
Matt:
So great insight, Julie, I really appreciate your thoughts and your time today. And I hope you have a great week. Thank you.
Julie:
Thank you very much, Matt. And have a great day as well.